Oct 9, 2005

Extreme Showdown? Groups Lining Up To Confront Nazis In Toledo

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Left: National Socialist Movement's Commander Jeff Schoep

A North Toledo neighborhood may be shaping up as the battleground between visiting Nazis and an assortment of leftist groups and gangs.

An organizational meeting was held at a west side coffee shop Sunday afternoon with about 15 local anarchist and socialist activists. I was invited as a media observer with the agreement that I would only write in general terms about what I heard and saw. None of the people in attendance were willing to go on record at this early juncture for fear of providing information to their adversaries.

Lacking much personal experience in the planning of protests (those I have participated in have been someone else's design), I nonetheless walked away convinced that there will be a serious confrontation on Saturday October 15.

Left: aerial view of Bronson Avenue, a possible location for the showdown between NSM and the leftists

My biggest concern: that TPD and local politicians will write off the Nazis, anarchists, communists, and socialists as "kooks," and devote too little resources or attention to what I believe will be a very serious brawl.

The wild card in this confusing game of political poker will be the actions of gangs such as local Blood and Crip factions, plus the notorious (and perhaps overblown) Dexter Boyz. Will they join in the battle, seeing the Nazis as invaders, or will they be convinced to sit out this fight?

The left-leaning groups I witnessed today seem to have their collective act together, although inter-radical rivalries may force some of these groups to show up as separate (but angry) oppositional forces.

I will post what I come across in the next few days; the groups that assembled today for planning were concerned about such issues as meeting places, parade routes, stashing/concealment of self-defense devices, and the placement of getaway vehicles. They were knowledgeable about the neighborhoods, and had several contingency plans in place.

Not exactly the issues one would expect from amateurs; only time will tell if this is mere braggadocio or something more serious.

28 comments:

Anonymous said...

whole lot of hooey over nothing

Anonymous said...

The general tone of your writing seems to be that the National Socialist Movement (Nazi Party) is wholly unwelcome in Toledo. Yet the NSM website reports that twelve new applications have come from Toledo for NSM membership the same day that the article was published. I suspect that the NSM has more support among Ohioans than the Blade realizes. One hardly expects a National Socialist uprising in Toledo, but the NSM seems to definately be on the rise. It's membership is young. Its racist message resonates with disillusioned young whites, who are increasingly alienated by black culture, anti-white "gangsta rap" music and black-on-white crime. The NSM may or may not get a serious beating on Oct. 15th, but they are getting a million dollars worth of free publicity either way. For every NSM member arrested or hospitalized, they will probably gain twenty new members. The real question that the Blade should be asking is "Why are white people getting so fed up with black behavior? The crime statistics are nothing new, the rate of black-on-white crime has been astronomically high for twenty years. Is it only now beginning to have an effect?"

Lisa Renee said...

and...just because it states that 12 people joined we know this is true how?

I agree that the racist message seems to resonate with those who are younger and it would seem that is encouraged. That is the same with any movement though from the Moonies to this group, those who are younger seem to be alot easier to sway to a certain frame of thought.

It's also obvious the reason for this is the free publicity since I think everyone can agree that one march down a north Toledo neighborhood is not going to stop or even mildly prevent gang/neighborhood problems.

historymike said...

Anonymous wrote:
The general tone of your writing seems to be that the National Socialist Movement (Nazi Party) is wholly unwelcome in Toledo.

I report what I see and hear. I have yet to hear anyone in Toledo (where I live) say that they want NSM here.

Period.

If you know of any such people who actually want NSM to come to Toledo, have them email me and I will interview them.

Feel free to read my work, which is easily accessible in popular search engines and academic databases, should you wish to determine my credibility as a writer. I have nothing to hide; I am exploring a side of the debate that has been ignored by the mainstream local media.

As far as the NSM website and its claims of 12 new members, I suggest that they offer some proof of this if they wish to be believed.

They can claim 100,000 members in Toledo, but unless they can document their claims (or the new members identify themselves in some way), this remains meaningless in its authenticity.

Hooda Thunkit said...

If nothing else, Saturday should prove to be interesting, which ever way each group participates (or sits this one out).

I'd bet that the clowns in brown will be there; the rest...???

Police/Sheriffs will surely be there, but in what numbers?

Too many holding their cards too close to tell...

Bill White said...

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE:

NATIONAL SOCIALIST MOVEMENT DISMISSES THREATS MADE TODAY BY COMMUNIST GROUPS

NSM Has Had Surveillance On Those Plotting Violence For Days

http://www.overthrow.com/images/ara_asskicked_1.gif

Photo: Anti-Racist Activists Being Beaten With Their Own Clubs In York, PA Jan 2002

The National Socialist Movement dismissed today threats made by local Toledo communist groups at a meeting attended by fifteen people at the Toledo Autonomous Zone, an anarchist-communist bookstore.

"We identified local communist leaders who have engaged in violent rhetoric several days ago and have had them under surveillance at the University of Toledo and elsewhere," White stated to the press today, "We know who these people are, we have given extensive information on them and their activities to the police, and we feel confident that if they try to match their walk to their talk they will be arrested long before they have a chance to start a riot in the streets of North Toledo."

Fifteen individuals from a hodgepodge of groups such as the International Socialist Organization, the Toledo Autonomous Zone and the Socialist Worker's Party met today with some members of the independent media and planned violent attack on NSM organizers, including strategies for infiltrating weapons past police, setting up getaway cars, and escape routes.

"We have identified about a dozen individual we feel likely to engage in violence, have identified where they live and where they work, and feel confident that, for all of their tough talk, their threat potential is quite minimal," White stated, "Our state leader, Mark Martin, served in the Marine Corps for twelve years, many of our members in the area are ex-soldiers, and, quite frankly, if these kids confront us and if the police do not arrest them we feel confident we will wipe the floor with them."

Communist groups have rioted against white activists in the past. In York, Pennsylvania, scores of communist activists were hurt after they attempted to attack a demonstration of 300 members of the World Church of the Creator with clubs (photo attached). In Baltimore, MD, prior to a demonstration outside the Israeli embassy in Washington, DC, communist activists attacked a hotel where white activists were staying, leading to the arrest of forty anti-racists.

"Again, we want to emphasize that these kids talk tough, but most of them are the stereotypical socially outcast skinny wimps," White concluded, "We do not consider them a threat."

historymike said...

I deleted White's posts because I do not want this site to be a conduit for personal information to be spread across the Internet.

I have reposted here the portions of his posts that did not divulge personal info about purported anti-Nazi activists:

http://www.overthrow.com/lsn/news.asp?articleID=8513

[Bill: We identified the local communist leadership last week. Here are two of the individuals we expect to be focal points for violent communist attacks.

And I've got a list of about a dozen of their associates who are likely to commit acts of violence -- I'm told there were fifteen at this meeting, so that's about right. I've got another two dozen as well that have attended meetings in the past year and indicated potential violent activities -- like the meeting they recently hosted with James Harris (perennial Socialist Worker's candidate for president).

Let any Toledo communist who is planning violence know that we already know who you are, we know where you live, and we will not take violent attacks on our supporters lightly.]

10/10/2005 12:44 AM


Bill White said...
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE:

NATIONAL SOCIALIST MOVEMENT DISMISSES THREATS MADE TODAY BY COMMUNIST GROUPS

NSM Has Had Surveillance On Those Plotting Violence For Days

http://www.overthrow.com/images/ara_asskicked_1.gif

Photo: Anti-Racist Activists Being Beaten With Their Own Clubs In York, PA Jan 2002

The National Socialist Movement dismissed today threats made by local Toledo communist groups at a meeting attended by fifteen people at the Toledo Autonomous Zone, an anarchist-communist bookstore.

"We identified local communist leaders who have engaged in violent rhetoric several days ago and have had them under surveillance at the University of Toledo and elsewhere," White stated to the press today, "We know who these people are, we have given extensive information on them and their activities to the police, and we feel confident that if they try to match their walk to their talk they will be arrested long before they have a chance to start a riot in the streets of North Toledo."

Fifteen individuals from a hodgepodge of groups such as the International Socialist Organization, the Toledo Autonomous Zone and the Socialist Worker's Party met today with some members of the independent media and planned violent attack on NSM organizers, including strategies for infiltrating weapons past police, setting up getaway cars, and escape routes.

"We have identified about a dozen individual we feel likely to engage in violence, have identified where they live and where they work, and feel confident that, for all of their tough talk, their threat potential is quite minimal," White stated, "Our state leader, Mark Martin, served in the Marine Corps for twelve years, many of our members in the area are ex-soldiers, and, quite frankly, if these kids confront us and if the police do not arrest them we feel confident we will wipe the floor with them."

Communist groups have rioted against white activists in the past. In York, Pennsylvania, scores of communist activists were hurt after they attempted to attack a demonstration of 300 members of the World Church of the Creator with clubs (photo attached). In Baltimore, MD, prior to a demonstration outside the Israeli embassy in Washington, DC, communist activists attacked a hotel where white activists were staying, leading to the arrest of forty anti-racists.

"Again, we want to emphasize that these kids talk tough, but most of them are the stereotypical socially outcast skinny wimps," White concluded, "We do not consider them a threat."

nsm_hampton_roads said...

I must bring to light for some of you that this is not about getting the NSM millions in free TV and paper time. More over its to show local people that their police dept. does exist in July of this year the NSM in both the Hampton roads area of VA and NC as well as the NC state unit were contacted over an increase in black on white crime in NE NC, and a lack of police activity, the NSM preceded to march through down town Elizabeth City and brought out at least 20 cops with no real opposition with the exception of one extremely large black woman in a electric scooter that the police "escorted" to the other side of the street.

Anonymous said...

So why come to Toledo if you are so popular in Norfolk and Hampton Roads?

Don't you have enough crime down there to tackle?

Or have you cleaned up the streets already?

Hooda Thunkit said...

Busy thread.

Can't say much for the content though...

historymike said...

This next post is a reprint from Toledo Talk; I am assuming that both "Bill Whites" are, indeed, one and the same:

Mr. White:

I report what I see.

I do not "believe everything people who are obviously insane tell" me. The vast majority of the people I saw and talked with were rational people who simply have a different political viewpoint.

Are there insane leftists? Sure. There are also insane Democrats, Republicans, Green Paty members, libertarians, and (I would guess) a few insane Nazis.

As far as numbers, I clearly mentioned my skepticism of the claims of the various groups and provided my slightly-tongue-in-cheek formula for deriving a more accurate estimate.

As far as your characterization of these people waiting for knocks "parent's doors," the people I talked with ranged in age from 20-60, and I doubt that more than 1 or 2 live with parents.

There were a wide variety of leftist groups represented at the meeting I attended, ranging from the political to trade unionists.

I think your operative infiltrated a different meeting than the one that I attended.

The planning of the "smuggling of weapons" seemed to be defensive in posture, at least on the surface. Just as your group is fears violence, so do these radicals. They believe that your group will be armed, and NSM wants a fight.

Are you ready to assert that your group will come in peace, bring no weapons, and be in Toledo only to get out your message?

Bill White said...

Our group does not fear violence. In fact, we've said repeatedly we don't expect violence to occur.

It is my experience that radical leftist groups come to rallies with weapons and then attack people -- primarily the police. In fact, I don't think I've ever been to a leftist rally where the leftists have not come with weapons and attacked people. Usually, it goes badly for the leftists.

Thus, given the 50 year history of leftists coming to rallies with weapons and attacking people, it is irrational to believe that this particular group of losers is going to behave any differently.

Anonymous said...

Mr. White:

You have not answered the central question:

Will NSM members, or will they not, be armed?

Anonymous said...

Here's the deal about Bill White. He is a lunatic who called himself ananarchist a few years back, and when they chased him away, he changed over to Nazi. No group wants to have anything to do with him because he does nothing but cause trouble for whatever group he chooses to hang out with. In a few months or so, the NSM will do something that he feels he needs to write on his blog about and he will leave them too. He is a trust fund baby with nothing better to do with his life. If you want to know something about him, go to www.onepeoplesproject.com. They can tell you everything you need to know.

Anonymous said...

NSM Michigan will be there, and will be ready.

Anonymous said...

Agreed about Bill White. He is a narcissist of the worst kind and has been shunned and ostracized by most others on the Nazi scene. He continuously exaggerates and fabricates and simply has no following. He is happy right now because he is the center of attention. Readers can find out more from http://citizensagainsthate.com where there is an entire section devoted to Mr. White. Also, someone else mentioned One Peoples Project - another good source.

At any rate, the thing I worry about most is that Bill White is stirring the pot and craving a showdown - he thinks. I agree with Mike - this could be very ugly.

Dean Roberts said...

TOLEDO POW WOW! Mark Martin, organizer of the NSM Toledo March is himself a Cherokee Indian! He's not even "white" by NSM standards. The NSM is so desperate that they will accept anyone who will send them $10 bucks a month. As for the mysterious "12" people in Toledo who supposedly "joined" the NSM - that is hilarious! The NSM has been recruiting for over 40 years and they have an estimated 100-150 members. For them to get 12 people to sign up en masse would require divine intervention from sources they are cut off from! Bill White is a pathological liar who is despised throughout the entire White Nationalist/National Socialist community. He's a mental case with a long history of hospitalizatioins in psychiatric facilities and has made several suicide attempts. One can only hope that if he unfortunately surives the Toledo POW WOW that he will consider suicide once again.

gunter88 said...

TOLEDO POW WOW! Mark Martin, organizer of the NSM Toledo March is himself a Cherokee Indian! He's not even "white" by NSM standards. The NSM is so desperate that they will accept anyone who will send them $10 bucks a month. As for the mysterious "12" people in Toledo who supposedly "joined" the NSM - that is hilarious! The NSM has been recruiting for over 40 years and they have an estimated 100-150 members. For them to get 12 people to sign up en masse would require divine intervention from sources they are cut off from! Bill White is a pathological liar who is despised throughout the entire White Nationalist/National Socialist community. He's a mental case with a long history of hospitalizations in psychiatric facilities and has made several suicide attempts. One can only hope that if he unfortunately surives the Toledo POW WOW that he will consider suicide once again.

gunter88 said...

The NSM are cowards. A Joke really. They wouldn't think of coming to Toledo to march if they didn't know there were going to be hundreds of policemen between them and the "enemy". Take away the police then let's see those goose-steppers march! They would vanish list mist in the morning sun!

Matt Drudge, Jr. said...

All you whiny bitches are gonna do is take a shit and fall back into it.

http://antiracistlosers.blogspot.com

BRING IT ON!

Anonymous said...

Bill White in just five years has gone from being a queer activist with a gay boyfriend by the name of Luke Kuhn to a neo-nazi. About 6 people will show up to march for the neo-nazi's and Bill White will claim 100 showed up.

Bill White also plead insanity in a Montgomery county court case were he was charged with possession of a starter's pistol. He held the starter's pistol to his head for hours while the Montgomery County police thought he had a real gun to his head. As a result of the court case, White spent six months in a mental institution, Crownsville State Hospital. During his confinement in Crownsville, his boyfriend at the time, Luke Kuhn, ran overthrow.com

Hooda Thunkit said...

Oh look, One of the clowns in brown ;-)

Lisa Renee said...

I think this would qualify as more braggadocio

See if women ran the world...

(now watch everyone get mad at me - lol)

:-)

Anonymous said...

The lack of support from other White Nationalists and National Socialists is going to be the end of NSM at Toledo. None of the other groups want to work with Jeff Schoeps NSM anymore. Everyones sick of them embarrassing us. With KSS, OSS, WNN, B&H, WCOTC, AN, Retaliator Skins, Odinsfolk, Klans, WR, and remnants of the NA all against them how can the NSM call itself part of any movement. They've been cut off over this stunt Bill White has begun.
This is why I think there will be violence. If the NSM had overwhelming support the Gangs wouldn't dare attack, and we already know the lefty wankers never do. Since the NSM is only going to have about 12 guys and Bill Whites publicity surrounding the event I predict the NSM will be beaten to a pulp possibly death counts by the 10:00 news.
That's okay the NSM will make perfect cannon fodder and it might spark something in the rest of the whites when they see the beating they take. An Alamo syndrome. "Remember Toledo" they'll scream and we'll all roll around laughing. After all this the other groups will be able to use that as an excuse for revenge and the White race will be better off.

Tony willow said...

For the record, you cannot use "WCOTC" per court order, a disclaimer is to follow it:

The Creativity Movement, which was once known as the World Church of the Creator (WCOTC), was found liable for trademark infringement in 2002 and changed its name.

Church of the Creator® is a trademark registered by and used to identify a religious organization unrelated to the Creativity Movement.
For more information, see http://www.churchofthecreator.org.

historymike said...

Great.
Thanks for the disclaimer, Tony.

Tony willow said...

No Problem

Anonymous said...

World Church of the Creator, White Mans Bible, nah nah nah.