Oct 14, 2005

Rumors And Predictions: Nazis In The Glass City

Share
Left: NSM rally in June 2005, which drew an estimated 150 supporters in Yorktown, VA

More tongues are wagging in Toledo than at a Gene Simmons lookalike audition, and, despite the superficial and rather sparse local media coverage, most of the Toledoans I have encountered are keenly interested in the events on the North End this Saturday.

Here, then, is a collection of the conspiracy theories, predictions, and observations offered by Toledo pundits from all walks of life, followed by historymike's mini-analysis:

1. The gangs will be out in force: This, of course, is the nightmare scenario, with a crowd of protesters whose ranks have been swelled with angry gangsters. Let's hope that the Toledo Police Department is taking this seriously.

2. The Gang Task Force will strike a deal with gang leaders: In this scenario, known gang leaders will be cajoled, threatened, and/or discouraged into keeping their followers out of the area.

3. Left-leaning groups will show up en masse and challenge barricades: Another wild card will be just how many union activists, anarchists, and socialists show up to confront the Nazis. From what I have seen and heard (on the streets, over the phone, and on the bulletin boards) there will be a minimum of 75 hardcore activists.

4. It will rain and all we will have will be a dozen wet Nazis: Fat chance. Forecast - sunny skies and 68 degrees.

5. The police will attempt to force the groups into a confined area, like a park: Fairly likely; several knowledgeable TPD sources ascribe to the "a moving Nazi is too hard for police to protect" theory. However, it looks like TPD is playing this one very close to the Kevlar, and may also be engaging in an active disinformation campaign to keep everyone off balance.

6. NSM may make a last-minute announcement that it will boycott its own rally: For credibility reasons, NSM would be hard-pressed to explain a no-show.

7. Very few neo-Nazi and white supremacist supporters will join NSM: Much more likely. There seems to be a significant number of supremacists who view Bill White and NSM with disdain, although I am hearing rumors that Michigan Militia members may show up incognito to offer NSM some protection and support. Most of the far right (or circumvented left, or third positionists, or however you want to characterize this politcal realm) seem to be jeering at, rather than cheering on, NSM. There is also a related argument that this is a last-ditch effort for Bill White and NSM to reestablish credibility among the supremacists.

8. Thomas Szych might face prosecution in the earlier gun-waving case next week: This is the biggest rumor flying around, but the prosecutor's office is not quacking. It would make sense to wait, so he won't be a martyr, but we'll have to wait and see. It's odd, though, that activists Bruce Beatty and Michael Franklin Green would face charges for gun offenses, but Szych has had nary a misdemeanor filed against him, and he actually pulled his weapon. Beatty and Green merely had guns in their possession.

Finally, a quote from a reader with ties to the anti-Nazi protesters:

""Kommen Sie herein, Herr Nazi ! Wir sind bereit fur Sie!" (Translation from the writer: "Come on in, Mr. Nazi. We're ready for you!" My German is horrible, so I am trusting that this is what it is purported to be)

21 comments:

Bill White said...

Honestly, History Mike, you are not sufficiently skeptical to be a journalist.

Only one of your rumors has even a kernel of truth to it.

Anonymous said...

here's a prediction

whites will win in the end

historymike said...

Hmm...

I am reporting what I am hearing. My "skepticism" - of which those who actually know me would attest that I have plenty - has nothing to do with the rumors flying around Toledo, and I clearly identified them as such both in the title and throughout the text.

You can debate the merits of what other people say, Mr. White, but that has nothing to do with the fact that I am reporting opinions.

I am, however, curious as to your "kernel of truth" in the opinion of a particular Toledoan.

As for Anonymous #112, some would argue that whites have been "winning" at the expense of other races for hundreds of years.

Hooda Thunkit said...

Mike,

IMO:

1. They are.

2. They won’t.

3. Possible.

4. There are hoses and hydrants, but the smell of wet Nazis is repelling…

5. No Comment…

6. Unlikely, although… What sound does a WHITE chicken make? Cluck, cluck, cluck…

7. Bill may be caught without many “buds” to back him up. Likely.

8. Szych will be burned for his transgressions, all in good time. Patience is a virtue.

The translation looks plausible, from my extremely limited language skills.

I predict that it will be a brief storm with minimal damage, followed by abundant sunshine.

But then, I’m basically an optimist ;-)

liberal_dem said...

History Mike- how'd your opinions go over in that right-wing garbage pit of Frantz?

historymike said...

Awwwww, come on, liberal dem, with the likes of Bill White coming to town, Bob Frantz looks like Howard Dean.

Besides, he's a lot less of a right-wing apologist than are Hannity and Limbaugh; take away 9/11 and the war in Iraq, and he might pass as a moderate.

Also, consider that he has a role to play as an entertainer. I don't have to sell ads on my blog, and I get paid as a freelancer. Bob has to make a few waves to get the ratings up.

Anyways, yes, I went on the air with him Monday, but I stuck to the facts as I have been reporting here. We speculated on the nature of the rally and counter-protests.

I am trying to fill a void on this blog in Toledo media coverage of NSM, as well as to examine related issues being ignored by our reporting-by-regurgitating-press-releases local media.

historymike said...

OK, let's look at these:

1.Gangs definitely out in force.
2.Any deals struck with the gangs did not hold.
3.Sizeable, but not overwhelming, turnout by leftists. I counted about 16 anarchists and 35 ISO members.
4. Weather was perfect.
5. TPD instead tried (unsuccessfully) to allow the march through the neighborhood.
6. NSM showed up, albeit somewhere in the neighborhood of 25 supporters.
7. Ditto.
8. We'll have to wait and see on this one. Now that Tom Szych's house got trashed, there may not be enough stomach in the Prosecutor's office to file a charge in his gun-waving incident.

Hooda Thunkit said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Hooda Thunkit said...

Mike,
Your legwork was flawless; apparently it was also better than the cops' info too.

Once the Nazis deviated from the agreed to plan, the police should have shut them down.

With 20/20 hindsight, I suspect that they now realize this...

musicwriter said...

How strange that the NSM rally at Yorktown took place in June. Yorktown was the place where the British surrendered to the U.S. militia on October 19, 1781 (224 years ago this week). Thus, if the MSN would have gone there this month, perhaps they would have cancelled their Toledo trip.

Anonymous said...

Historymike said... "Now that Tom Szych's house got trashed, there may not be enough stomach in the Prosecutor's office to file a charge in his gun-waving incident."


And you find that somehow funny? What if he would have used it? I would! I don't care whom it is , when someone or many in such numbers attack you home and you and your family it will be justified!

There is rumor that the law "Stand Your Ground " is comming to Ohio. What are you going to say when a person can leagaly shoot someone tresspassing, damaging there home, car garage or them or their fanmily? And the law in Michigan and Florida states that the person whom is shot and their family will not be allowed to sue.

I pray it comes to Ohio, that will put an immediate stop to such riots thusly making the victims capable of defending themselves .

Why do you think these riots are happeneing? This new law destined for Ohio is one reason why.

Wether there is no such law or not in Toledo I think Mr. Szych would have been well within his rights to shoot since it is evident he and his home were under attack by many savages in the streets. I don't think a jury would have convicted him unless they loaded it with all blacks or majority blacks.

Even a Toledo Police officer said he came to the point wereas he was "ready to draw his service weapon and shoot his way out of the gangs attacking him. Or don't you watch the news ? That is where I heard it, straight from the officers mouth on Toledo local news.

Are you going to tell me that a Toledo Police officer can shoot his way out but Mr Szych can not , considering both incidents were the same?

You sir need to get out more. There is more happening here than you pretend to report on .

Dick in Toledo

historymike said...

I find nothing at all "funny" about Tom Szych's house being trashed.

Don't put words in my mouth, sir.

And I hope that your little comment about violence to my family is not another thinly-veiled threat; I am documenting and reporting this NSM crap to the FBI.

Be advised that this site collects IP addresses.

Anonymous said...

Historymike said... "And I hope that your little comment about violence to my family is not another thinly-veiled threat; I am documenting and reporting this NSM crap to the FBI."


Original Comment From DICK:"And you find that somehow funny? What if he would have used it? I would! I don't care whom it is , when someone or many in such numbers attack your home and you and your family it will be justified! "

Ok , I sse the take on this Mike. It happens all the time when dealing with the Jewish,

Perhaps I should explain this in simpler terms so you may comprehend.

It should have read: And you find that somehow funny? What if he would have used it? I would! I don't care whom it is , when someone or many in such numbers attack your home and you and your family it will be justified defense ! "

Now let me explain in simpler terms . I was refering all along to Mr. Szych and your report that he was waving a gun around. The sentence above simply indicates that ANYONE including YOU whose home and family may be under attack and they use deadly force , that in my opinion is JUSTIFIED! In reality Mike I was actually refering Mr. Szych and his home being under attack and the possiblity that he may have had to deal with this situation and actually use the gun you reported he was waving.In no way was any referance made to you!

You can contact the FBI if you wish. Even they are not that supid to see the ridiculous things that you see in this message.I am a graduate of the 2 year Ohio Peace Officer Accademy and have a degree in Applied Science of Law Enforcement. Even I am not that stupid to make such a threatening remark nor would I ever!

I threaten no one! I only defend my own when obsolutly necessary.

History Mike said:Be advised that this site collects IP addresses.

Just be careful and lawfull how you use it!

Historymike said... " Don't put words in my mouth"

Hmmm Mike it appears you are putting words in my mouth in order to fullfill your dilusional fantasy that I alledged any harm to you or your family. I am a father and a Grandfather and I know that family is important. You ridiculously accertain that I would bring harm to your family over a simple debate?

WE are simply debating here Mike! you don't agree with all that I say and I don'tm agree with all that you say. And you suspect in a delusional way that I mean harm in simple debate? I am not one of the NSM although i read a lot of their post and other sites like them. I am simply studying them just as I study Judaism , religion, the Talmud, The Septuagint and many more things.

Grt real Mike, there is nothing to this other than your own mind fooling you and scaring you. I live in Toldeo and am just as displeased with this riot businees as any nomal citizen whom lives here. This is a debate Mike and i thought that you were above this trivial crap.

I am not one of them ( NSM, nazi , or otherwise) I am simply a concerned citizen of Toledo whom has a differnet take on this riot than you do.


And because I don't agree, you make false acusations and reports that may land you in more legal trouble than your care to have. It is illegal to make a false police report in Ohio!

Anonymous said...

Above report documented in case it is deleted by host.

Dick in Toledo

historymike said...

Dear "Dick":

1. I am not Jewish, although if bigots hate Jews, there must be something pretty special about them. Maybe I'll convert just to tweak the bigots.
2. "Dick" wrote: when someone or many in such numbers attack you home and you and your family it will be justified! I have received direct and indirect threats from racist idiots ever since I started reporting on this story. If you were speaking rhetorically, and not making and implied threat, then don't worry, "Dick." However, if you have some hidden agenda, then be advised that I will take the necessary legal steps to protect my family.
3. You sound very angry. If my site angers you so much read something more up your alley.
4. Thanks for your advice about filing false reports, "Dick." However, be advised that people with views similar to yours have already made numerous threats, and that there is nothing "false" in emailers telling me I am going to be shot, or writers describing what happens to "Jews" like me in very explicit terms.

Anonymous said...

Historymike said... "If you were speaking rhetorically, and not making and implied threat, then don't worry, "Dick." However, if you have some hidden agenda, then be advised that I will take the necessary legal steps to protect my family."


Oh, I'm not worried Mike. I make no threats to anyone. What I was simply implying is that if I were talking to you directly and we were talking about this man waving a gun arund while hundreds or more were attaking his home, and If it were you ,or me. or Tom Synch, you , I he. would have the right to protect yourself/ourself and it whould be justified.

Have you ever heard of justifiable defense? That is what I am talking about and you know it.

To set things straight Mike, I am not one of the people that you keep refering to i.e. NSM, or otherwise.

History Mike said" there is nothing "false" in emailers telling me I am going to be shot, or writers describing what happens to "Jews" like me in very explicit terms. "

There is nothing in my comment that even eludes to you being shot! What I did say is that anyone, you me , anyone that is being attaked by many people such as this man was , it would be justified in my opinion to defend ones self. Never was there any direct threat made to you or your family. Not even a thinly veiled one as you so ignorantly percieve.

You sir are delusional. Am I angry? Not at all, just mildly upset that you would take things so out of perspective simply to lend credbility to your own twisted cause or agenda.

History Mike said "3. You sound very angry. If my site angers you so much read something more up your alley."

Look Mike, if I threaten your train of thought or your alledged journalism and you don't want me here because of that then simply ask me to leave and I will never post here again.

You don't have to result to such petty and pre-concieved theories to get rid of me, simply ask and I will honor you request. I am simply here to write about my belief verse yours. Nothing more.

Sorry about the Jewish thing. Perhaps this was a pre-concieved ideal on my behalf by reading your above header (main page) about you being Jewish. Don't give me that Jewish crap either. I have a niece ( an her children) whom are Jewish and a neighbor whom is a very good friend .

There are many people I don't like and it is not exclusive to Jewish even though some may be jewish.

I can't help believe that you really know what I have been talking about but are eluding to some sort drama in order to raise credibility of your story or your pre-concieved ideals about those whom disagree with you. My story clearly starts out with Mr. Szych and never eludes away from him and his right to protect himself and his family.

The fact that you percieve it somehow meant a threat to you shows how delusional you really are. You know that I was talking about his right to defend his home and family- the same right afforded to you and anyone else.

You have purposely drawn this all out of context perhaps to draw drama to you and your friends in order to support some wild delusion that someone wants to harm you .

Why would I want to harm you over a simple internet debate? Do you know how delusional that really sounds ? And you sir call others delusional!

You have made the case simply by implying it as a " thinly veiled threat" which signifies that the thought is in your mind, pre-concieved and invented by you alone. Which basicly implies that even you are not sure. People do this sort of thing all the time and it is nothing more than the delusional mind of the person making the alledged accusation.

Mike I don't blame you for protecting your family and I applaud you for that. But being delusional about ones disagreements with you show that you are not fit for the job of journalism.

Sorry your mind has led you astray and you feel that way about what I implied in reality toward Mr. Szych
,I am here simply for constructive debate as a native Toledoan. That also menas that I will not always agree with you. However if I am a threat ( to your journalistic adventures,i.e historical misadventures) because of this debate , all you have to do is ask me to leave and not come back and I will do so. I can't help believe that this is a baiting by you in order to scare off those whom disagree with you in order that you always appear right!

If not , time to drop this deliusional belief and more on to more debate.

Dick in Toledo

historymike said...

Look, "Dick":

1. My email box and these comments sections have been filled with all sorts of threats - both direct and indirect. Again - my apologies to you if I have been hyper-alert to implied threats.

2. You have not made aspersions about Jews, but many other posters on this site have. At first I just deleted them, thinking I would run a "clean" site. Now I am not so sure; am I abetting anti-Semites if I delete their outrageous posts?

3. There is nothing "delusional" about these threats. I have endured this once before as a writer on a story, but it was much shorter-lived and consisted of a few calls and emails that stopped in one week. I am shocked that thugs resort to intimidation as a means of trying to force their ideology on others.

4. You are more than welcome to visit, post, and comment on this site.

Anonymous said...

Historymike said... 1. My email box and these comments sections have been filled with all sorts of threats - both direct and indirect. Again - my apologies to you if I have been hyper-alert to implied threats.

2. You have not made aspersions about Jews, but many other posters on this site have. At first I just deleted them, thinking I would run a "clean" site. Now I am not so sure; am I abetting anti-Semites if I delete their outrageous posts?

3. There is nothing "delusional" about these threats. I have endured this once before as a writer on a story, but it was much shorter-lived and consisted of a few calls and emails that stopped in one week. I am shocked that thugs resort to intimidation as a means of trying to force their ideology on others.

4. You are more than welcome to visit, post, and comment on this site.

Fair enough Mike . am not trying to pull your leg when I say Toledo.I am pro-police and don't believe the police did enough in this incident. Also I must bring to you attention that the Mayor of this city did in fact tell the riotors that the NSM was gone over a megaphone . It seemed the rioters did not want to hear him anyway. This I have seen on the local news with mayor Ford clearly telling the rioters that they have gone.

Now back to people making threats I find that very immature and self destructive on their behalf. The law clearly gives us right to freedom of speech but not the right to threaten someone or their family.

I have read some of the threats to you and others on this site. It displeases me. Although at sometime in the near future it may be possible that many may have to defend themselves against such ignorant threats or even in future riots and such I find it very disturbing but a reality of modern day life.

I support the right of white people to also march , however dressing up in clown suits and swaztica's is not the way. That may be a thing of the past in many upcomming marches in the US because other organizers are making sure it will simply be white people in normal dress.

For instance Hal Turner is going to be marching sometime in this month but there will only be white people in normal dress. They are going to march in NY city to address the rampant black crime on white students in a school.

This time they won't be able to blame it on the nazies, only angry white people. Turner is trying to do away with the nazi symbolic marches and making them simply white marches.

Again I accept your apoligizes and hope you realize that I will never threaten you or your family. I may get angry with you over your ideals but never to the point that I would threaten you.

On a last not. I feel that those whom march in uniform of any kind have totally misrepresented whites and their anger over certain situations or black on white crime . I feel that if whites must become angry and march it must be as whites in normal dress in order to address their displeasure over any incident so that they can not be misrepresented or deligitimized by the MSM ( Main Stream Media).

AS for your "shock " Mike, you shouldn't be! I have visted hundreds of blogs over the years and this is a common thing of thugs of all racial origin. I have seen it from whites, Blacks, Jews and more. It is nothing new but seems to be a pass time of some in order to get some sort of pleasure of scaring and intimidating people.

Dick in Toledo

David Ben-Ariel said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
David Ben-Ariel said...

Toledo Race Riots blog tells the plain truth!

historymike said...

Tell us, David, what you mean by such statements as "THE BLACK BOIL NEEDS TO BE LANCED!"

IS this the "truth" of the October 15 riot of which you speak?