Dec 11, 2005

On The Costs Of Defending Nazis

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Left: Toledo Police protecting the National Socialist Movement's 35 supporters in Toledo; photo by historymike

Toledo officials released preliminary figures of costs of $300,000 to maintain order at yesterday's white power rally sponsored by the NSM. Police Chief Mike Navarre said that 700 officers from local, state, and federal agencies were deployed in an effort to avoid the violence associated with the October 15 aborted rally.

The cost of that rally - excluding damages to private homes and businesses - was well over $350,000.

Officials in Kingston, NY - the site of a pro-white rally on November 19 - gave a preliminary estimate of $100,000 as the cost of maintaining the peace when Internet podcaster Hal Turner was joined by NSM, Aryan Nations, and other white supremacist groups.

The costs associated with providing protection to neo-Nazis and white supremacists do not go unnoticed by the racist right.

"We'll come back again and again until we bankrupt this city," Turner told onlookers last month. My sources on the ground in Kingston said that Turner seemed giddy about the effect that his rally had on local finances.

"It was clear that he took a perverse delight in sticking the city of Kingston with these expenses," said one observer. "Turner has been bragging about it on his show and to any reporter who will stick a microphone in his face."

Yesterday's Toledo rally cost the city just under $10,000 per neo-Nazi supporter. It is interesting to hear Bill White and Hal Turner complain about welfare payments to minorities when this quasi-military operation yesterday amounted to such a colossal expenditure on behalf of the NSM.

Cities such as Kingston and Toledo face difficult choices when it comes to the arrival of white power rallies. If a city were to eschew police protection for the hatemongers, they would leave themselves open for much costlier lawsuits should violence break out. At the same time, citizens of a given city would much rather see administrators spend limited resources on items like education and protection of local citizens.

Furthermore, the purported reason for gathering used by many white power activists these days revolves around protesting crime (specifically for them, black-on-white crime). Are these groups really helping cash-strapped cities use their resources wisely, or is this just a pretense to get more exposure for their racist ideology?

NSM founder Cliff Herrington spent most of his speech yesterday (at least, those portions that I could hear) discussing his conspiracy views involving the Rothschilds and Bilderbergers. Given the fact that Toledoans could not understand what Herrington was saying due to the inadequate sound system and his Führer-esque screaming, was the $300,000 that city officials coughed up money well spent?

23 comments:

Anonymous said...

NSM loves the security welfare spending. All it would take would be a couple of ass-beatings by local residents for them to stop coming.

Anonymous said...

I can tell you now that the NSM didn't ask for or wanted police protection.

The police are there to protect the ARA losers from the NSM when you clowns start your violence.

Anonymous said...

NSM would get slaughtered without police protection.

historymike said...

I don't think we can speculate on what would happen if NSM had no police protection, because the police will always be around them (at least in multiracial neighborhoods like North Toledo).

Even if NSM snuck in and did a few sieg heils for publicity, it would only be a matter of minutes beofre the city swarmed them with police.

Cities canot ignore what they know to be situations that can lead to unrest, uless they want to leave themselves open for expensive lawsuits.

M A F said...

The people of Toledo would save themselves a lot of money by ignoring the NSW when they rally for their stuperior beliefs.

I can't help think about the saying about a tree falling in the forest. If the NSW held a rally and the anti-racists protestors never came, would anyone hear the NSW?

Mr. Schwartz said...

The NSM fully wants police protection as they fully cooperate with law enforcement. Bill White testified in court how Mark Martin was talking to the Toledo police chief. Hal Turner went out of his way to cooperate with the police on his rally.

We know full well if the cops didn't protect the nazis, the first ones who would be crying would be the nazis.

The police actually saved the City of Toledo millions of dollars. Had they not shown up, the nazis would have been beaten then used. And rioting would have occured again.

The great news I figure is there were 40 nazis and 80 antifa out of 300,000 citizens in the city of Toledo. Which means 299,880 of them didn't bother with coming to their rally. About 1/50th of one percent of the population (0.02 percent) of Toledo's civilian population bothered to come the rally.

Nice.

historymike said...

Yes, Harry, most of the city found better things to do, like stay inside and keep warm.

I am amazed that the NSM could only dredge up 35 people or so, despite having all this time to do so. Pathetic.

The antifa was split in this rally. There were about 60 anarchists who boycotted and chose to demonstrate elsewhere. TPD nabbed at least 15 of these, and chased more away. This was a complete crackdown on anything other than the "official" party.

All told, this was less than 150 organized antifa. I thought more would show up given the advance publicity, but a combination of the weather and scare tactics by the city definitely kept the numbers down.

Well, at least the city is in one piece. We'll talk later about what this means in terms of civil liberties. We even had Bill White noting in court that this was de facto martial law in Toledo.

There! See? Bill and I can agree on occasion.

Hooda Thunkit said...

~35 NSM supporters

~90 antifa

700+ cops, fire, EMS, untold State and Federal "helpfuls."

Quite an impressive turnout, especially considering that besides Toledo & Lucas Co., 12 other sheriffs sent assistance.

Kudos to all who protected and served.

Mr. Schwartz said...

I'll agree it was marshall law in Toledo and it appeared the police went overboard on the antis and reporters.

I think the charges will be dropped against all of the antifa and reporters eventually just like in other areas.

I do believe that the nazis do have the right to march on streets where-ever they want as long as they get a parade permit like every other group has. The police are obiligated to protect them at whatever cost. It sucks but that is how I read the law and constitution on free speech.

I also think the anti-nazis have every right to counter protest, list their names, protest in front of their houses, and notify their neighbors of their nazi activites.

Elmer Frazier said...

There Schwartzo goes talking about Fucking with people's neighbors & etc. What the Fuck do you get out of posting people's personal info? That is so Fucked up. The NSM & Hal and others don't do these things. They protest up town.

Proudly Spending My Days Bitch Slapping Harry Schwartzo's KIKE Ass All Over The Net.

Anonymous said...

I agree about the 'tree falling in a forest' theory. I blame the so-called 'anti-nazi protestors' for the cost.

So far as I can make out, these 'anti-nazi' demonstrators are the same ones who show up and smash windows as 'anti-globalists' whenever there is a 'World Trade Forum' or some such event. Basically, a bunch of idiots who go looking for an excuse to fight with police and smash things up, and call themselves 'anti-nazis' because nazis are the only people even less liked than communists/anarchists or whatever they call themselves.

Anonymous said...

Elmer Frazier said...
What the Fuck do you get out of posting people's personal info? That is so Fucked up.
================

Please tell that to Bill White Michael Blevins and Hal Turner as they regularly post peoples private info.

Nikki said...

Steve - I really can't believe you said that! Look at White's site today - and then talk about not posting personal information! Gimme a break!

Do said...

Well, kids, while Bill White has taken the opportunity and latitude to post peoples' addresses and personal info I have to tell ya - some of his information is wrong. If he pays for the service that is supplying him with this info then he should get his money back.

And for Elmer Fudd - you need help. Please ask Santa to bring you a brain.

Elmer Frazier said...

The people Bill listed were arrested and that is public record.

It's Ok to post the names of Savages.

ajax saith said...

hey mikey:

i was visiting hal's website and i took a look at his pics from the dec 10 toledo operation, hal & co. look like some pretty tough dudes, and the police i saw were clothed in full battle gear ready for some serious action

what happened to the black gangkiddies? ...maybe they got the message their riot-antics would not be tolerated or is it true they are 'jungle-bunnies' and not 'snow-bunnies'

historymike said...

Actually, the gang task force worked the streets in the weeks prior and got local gangs to see the light. Community activists were also proactive in keeping gang members away.

As for the weather - it kept almost everyone away, except 35-40 Nazis and 80-90 antis in the protest zone.

Only the hardcore zealots (plus media and the cops) ventured out in the single-digit wind chills.

As for NSM looking like "tough dudes," I thought they looked more like "frozen dudes." I have seen them up close at the October 15 rally, and they looked pretty average. A couple of them were definitely butt-kickers, but there were also some skinny-ass punks and fat 50-something weirdos, too.

Physically, pretty much like the rest of us.

A Midwest Antifa said...

The rally was a major flop for the NSM.. that is for sure. I can't even remember what their message was and I didn't hear a single sentence that they said.

It was the type of event which will be forgotten by next month. Why anyone would hold an outdoor event in December in the midwest? F#*cking crazy wignuts in halloween costumes... that's who!

I don't see the Nazis coming back to Toledo unless they are determined to bankrupt the city... however with the red carpet treatment given to them by city officials they may feel quite safe and comfortable... you never know! With 700 bodyguards it sounds like one of the safest places for a nazi rally in the entire continent.

Ion Antonescu said...

The National Socialists were in Toledo protesting negro gang violence in that city. They applied for and got the required permits, and the city of Toledo is required to give police protection. They would even be required to give protection to the communists, anarchists and unfortunately to the negro gangs that tore Toledo up several weeks ago if they applied for the same permit.

Ironically, it was so called 'anti-racist' Whites that perpetrated most of the violence on December 10. A tatto parlor got a window smashed with a rock bearing the anarchist symbol. Police will hopefully treat this as a hate crime. Anarchist scum whine about this, but if I threw a rock through one of their anarchist book stores, hate crime charges would most definitely be pending against me.

I could care less if my personal information is posted publicly. However, do not take that as a sign of how I would feel if someone came on my property to inflict damage to my property, person or family. If someone did that, let's just sat that person will wish they had never been born.


Now as far as numbers are concerned, the antifa scum will always inflate their numbers. They still outnumbered the National Socialists two to one, but if you asked one of them, they will tell you that 800-900 were there instead of 80-90.

The public is always forcefed the line that 'nazis are violent, nazis are intolerant, blah, blah, blah.' Well, we have seen which side of the argument is really the intolerant and violent ones. The communists and anarchists passed out leaflets in negro neighborhoods urging the negroes to violently stop the National Socialists. This is conspiracy to riot. If the NSM had passed out leaflets in White areas urgung Whites to violently stop negro gangs, this would have resulted in Federal civil rights charges against the NSM. However, since anarchists and communists were the culprits, nothing was done. And they say the cops protect WHO???

Over 99% of Toledo avoided this rally. Over 99% of the American public are not National Socialists, communists or anarchists. However, the American public can see with their own eyes. And they are seeing that the NSM's message is correct. Maybe the NSM's manner of dress and opinions are considered a bit extreme for most of America. So do communists, anarchists and negro gangs though, and when one side is perpetrating all the violence and trying to suppress the other's right to speak, well, America sees that with its own eyes.

historymike said...

Sigh.

Let's address some of Ion's misconceptions one-by-one:

1. There was little in the way of "violence" on December 10, save the incident you cited. Also, this might be a "political" crime, but "hate crime?" Tough sell there, since both perp and victim were white.

2. I highly doubt that you would not feel a sense of violation at your personal info being published. Methinks you are just trying to justify a terror tactic of internet sociopaths.

3. In my experience in covering three white supremacist rallies, the most egregious exaggerations have been by the racist right. I have not seen any antifa site make the outrageous claims you make; can you cite a source?

4. The antifa passed out flyers in the multi-racial neighborhood in which the city stupidly allowed the Nazis to march. The cops respond to complaints, and - surprise - most people are more offended by genocidal Nazis than antifa wanting to protest a Nazi rally.

5. NSM messages of minority genocide, white secesssion, and/or forced deportation of ethnic minorities are what people see, Ion. And they are, in the main, disgusted and repelled by hate groups using local crime to justify their invasion of a city.

ion Antonescu said...

History Mike wrote:

Sigh.

Let's address some of Ion's misconceptions one-by-one:

1. There was little in the way of "violence" on December 10, save the incident you cited. Also, this might be a "political" crime, but "hate crime?" Tough sell there, since both perp and victim were white.

Ion Antonescu writes:

There would have been more violence from the antifa if the police had not been there to stop it. You showed one pic of cops arresting a carload of 'antifa' waiting to 'welcome' a few Nazis. The NSM has always followed the law at their rallies. I have attended two NSM rallies myself, and I can tell you that all the violence comes from the 'anti-racists.' Vandalism, tires slashed, winshields broken, assaults with fists, tire irons, skateboards, this is what they are about. They are NOT about freedom of speech, historymike. If the NSMs message is so awful, what do you and the antifa fear if the public hears it? We have not stifled antifa freedom of speech, not one time, with violence. It is up to the public to reject or accept the NSMs message, not a handful of communist reject hippie freaks from the 60's.

As far as what a hate crime consists of, the race of the perpetrator and the victim can still be the same and still be a hate crime.

Historymike writes:

2. I highly doubt that you would not feel a sense of violation at your personal info being published. Methinks you are just trying to justify a terror tactic of internet sociopaths.

Ion Antonescu writes:

The internet sociopaths that started publishing personal information, historymike, are ANARCHISTS, which are ANTIFA. To be precise, ONEPEOPLESPROJECT.COM, sir. So do not put those words in my mouth, sir. Daryl Lamont Jenkins has what he calls a 'rogues gallery,' with "Nazis'" personal information posted for all to see. If one day my information was posted there, I would not be happy about it, but I would not lose any sleep over it, either. However, if someone came onto my property and tried to damage me, my family or property because of that posted info, I would not only make the person/people that dared to set foot on my property sorry they were born, I would then sue DLJ out of existence. Otherwise, post away, if you can find me.

Historymike writes:

3. In my experience in covering three white supremacist rallies, the most egregious exaggerations have been by the racist right. I have not seen any antifa site make the outrageous claims you make; can you cite a source?

Ion Antonescu writes:

Any indymedia site online will grossly inflate the antifa/left's numbers at any and all rallies. For example, the antiwar rallies in DC have routinely drawn in the high tens of thousands. Indymedia claims hundreds of thousands were at every rally. Now, do not get me wrong, every antiwar rally has outnumbered any prowar rally I have ever seen so badly it is pathetic. However, the prowar people do not lie about their numbers. They may exaggeate slightly, but no way do they tell the whoppers the left does. As to the exaggerations made by the racist right, to what do you refer? Numbers? Don't go there. How they are treated at rallies? I have seen all ends of the spectrum on that from both sides, try something else.

Historymike writes:

4. The antifa passed out flyers in the multi-racial neighborhood in which the city stupidly allowed the Nazis to march. The cops respond to complaints, and - surprise - most people are more offended by genocidal Nazis than antifa wanting to protest a Nazi rally.

Ion Antonescu writes:

Yes, the antifa passed out flyers urging the negro gangs and their allies to violently stop the NSM march. I contend that if the NSM passed out flyers in White sections urging Whites to violently stop the negro gangs, they would have been charged with conspiracy to violate civil rights, conspiracy to start a riot, and a host of other Federal charges. If more people are offended by "nazis" than "antifa," fine. Both have the right to freedom of speech, whether you think so or not. Freedom of speech does not include urging violence to stop another person or group from speaking their mind. I wonder how you would react if the Black Panthers, the Nation of Islam or LaRaza came to Toledo and preached "death to Whitey?" How would you feel then? Is that their freedom of speech? How do you think Toledo would react? The city would probably roll out the red carpet for these groups. The double standard applied to pro-White and pro-black/brown groups is obvious.

Historymike writes:

5. NSM messages of minority genocide, white secesssion, and/or forced deportation of ethnic minorities are what people see, Ion. And they are, in the main, disgusted and repelled by hate groups using local crime to justify their invasion of a city.

Ion Antonescu writes:

This "local crime" you refer to happens in every locality in America today. Nonwhite gangs perpetrate nonwhite crime, mostly against Whites and their property. Nonwhite crime is far worse than White crime because they are the "minorities" you so lovingly refer to. They are destroying America, plain and simple. This is what the NSM was protesting. And the negro gangs obligingly proved the NSM's point by rioting. THAT is what I saw, Historymike.

As far as misconceptions go, I think you are the one with them and should take a good hard look at who is really preaching the message of hate and intolerance. The NSM is reacting to decades of anti-White discrimination by our government and anti-White crime by nonwhites, especially negroes. If you want true racial harmony, start addressing this in the national media. It's easy to discredit a small group that holds a small rally in freezing weather opposed by twice their number and having 20 times their number of law enforcement to keep order. However, just below the surface, tens of millions of Whites feel just like we do. Like it or not, that's a fact. Perhaps they are not as extreme in their racial beliefs, but the resentment and anger is there. The resentment and anger that 50 years of government brainwashing could not eradicate.

historymike said...

1. Look, Ion, these Illinois protesters were arrested for being at a library. Period. They were not part of the "welcoming" protesters. They could not possibly have covered the 15 miles in city traffic.
2. You point out DLJ, but conveniently ignore Bill White, the king of private info disclosure. If the NSM is so dead set against this, they had better clean up their own loose cannons first.
3. I am writing from my own experience, which is covering a mere three rallies, In each of those cases, Bill White and Hal Turner told the whoppers, not the anti-racists.
4. "Kick out the Nazis" is a lot different than "Death to Whitey." Compare apples with apples.
5. Crime is crime. It belongs to no race, and your attempts to single one race out for crime problems only shows that you are a bigot.

Ion Antonescu said...

Historymike wrote:

1. Look, Ion, these Illinois protesters were arrested for being at a library. Period. They were not part of the "welcoming" protesters. They could not possibly have covered the 15 miles in city traffic.

Ion Antonescu writes:

So what? Other antifa would have certainly taken up their 'slack' and 'welcomed' the Nazis had the police not been there. You missed my point entirely, not a surprise coming from someone as blatantly anti-White as you are.

Hostorymike wrote:

2. You point out DLJ, but conveniently ignore Bill White, the king of private info disclosure. If the NSM is so dead set against this, they had better clean up their own loose cannons first.


Ion Antonescu writes:

DLJ started doing the info disclosure far earlier than anyone else. I am not aware that the NSM is 'dead set against' any info disclosure. They originally did it in response to DLJ but now do it as a means of protecting their members from violent communists and anarchists. It also helps the police arrest those communist pieces of filth when they do commit violent acts against racially conscious Whites.

Historymike wrote:

3. I am writing from my own experience, which is covering a mere three rallies, In each of those cases, Bill White and Hal Turner told the whoppers, not the anti-racists.

Ion Antonescu writes:

Bill White and Hal Turner could tell whoppers and lies the rest of their born days and not equal the lies told by the left. And this comes from my own experience from well over two dozen pro-White rallies that have all had 'antifa' counterdemos.

Historymike wrote:

4. "Kick out the Nazis" is a lot different than "Death to Whitey." Compare apples with apples.

Ion Antonescu writes:

I am comparing apples to apples. You completely missed the point I made. The NSM is a pro-White group, and preaches pro-White interests. The Black Panthers and Nation of Islam preach pro-negro interests, while La Raza preaches pro-Hispanic interests. All four have racial tendencies. However, the non-white groups are lauded for it while the White group is condemned for it. I was comparing the treatment the NSM got from Toledo to the treatment the NOI, Black Panthers or La Raza would get from the city. I was not comparing the NSM to the antifa. I do not know where you got that from.

Historymike wrote:

5. Crime is crime. It belongs to no race, and your attempts to single one race out for crime problems only shows that you are a bigot.

Ion Antonescu writes:

If Whites committed crime in greater proportion than their population, the media and people like you would never stop pointing this out. However, when I and groups like the NSM point out that nonwhite crime is out of control, we are called bigots. Fine. If I am a bigot, you are a worse one for ignoring the obvious facts. And crime is NOT crime. Ever hear of hate crime legislation, which makes some crimes thought crimes?

Oh, and why were the Toledo police stupid for allowing the NSM to march through the crime infested neighborhood, although they never got the chance to? It is okay to let negroes march through White areas so they can tell the Whites how racist they are, but not okay for the NSM to prove a point, which was obliginly done so by the negro gangs. And you call me racist. By every standard, yes I am and I admit it. So are you, but I am sure you will deny that to the end of the Earth. You belong on the left with their lies.